Episode 132: Katie Brinkley

Katie Brinkley

Intro: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Pretty powerful podcast where powerful women are interviewed every week to share real inspiring stories. And incredible insight to help women or anyone break the barriers, be a part of innovation, shatter the glass ceiling, and dominate to the top of their sport industry or life's mission.

Join us as we celebrate exceptional women and step into our power. And now here's your host, Angela Gennari.

Angela Gennari: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Pretty Powerful podcast. My name is Angela Gennari, and today I am here with Katie Brinkley. Hi Katie. Hi. Thanks so much for having me. Thank you for being here.

So Katie Brinkley is the author of the Social Shift and is redefining Social Media Marketing with a Less is more philosophy. With 19 years of experience, she innovates with a unique four post strategy. Fostering growth with minimal posting. This is interesting because it totally goes against [00:01:00] everything we've heard, so I can't wait to dive into this.

So tell me, first of all, what made you get to this point where, what, what made you want to go into specifically social media marketing?

Katie Brinkley: Yeah. So I actually started with social media back in the days of MySpace, helping bands with their MySpace pages. Yeah, yeah. Old, um, you're talking to a dinosaur here, folks.

Yeah. But, but I, I loved social media. I thought it was a really cool way to, to grow our network and mm-hmm. To meet new people. And back when I was messing around on my space, I had no idea that being a social media, anything would ever be a possibility. Isn't that crazy? I mean, look, think about how much things have changed.

Mm-hmm. It's, it's crazy. And, um, yeah, so I mean, I, I started my helping band with their MySpace pages. I was a former radio journalist, so I did the post-game interviews for the Rockies and Broncos. And then about a decade ago, I was laid off from my [00:02:00] job. My position was moved to Atlanta, and so I. Chose to take the severance package and honestly, it was the best thing that happened for me.

Yeah. Um, so it allowed me to start my own social media agency and now I get to do something that I love every day. But I think the biggest differentiator, like you said, is. Even though I have a social media agency, I, I kind of hate being on social media. Uh, I mean, like, this is the thing, like how can we build those connections?

How can we build community? How can we get more business? Mm-hmm. Social media is one of the best ways to do it, but it almost feels like we kind of have to sell our soul to Mark Zuckerberg if we wanna have any sort of results. But I figured out a way, so. Yeah. Yeah.

Angela Gennari: I love that. I love it. And so. Yeah, and, and I agree.

I mean like I am not much of a social media person. Like if you look at my. Personal Facebook, like you rarely see anything like, like is she dead? Like what? What has happened with her? She hasn't posted anything in months [00:03:00] and then all of a sudden, but like my LinkedIn is every day, every day, but I also have people helping me manage that.

So it's different. Like I can, you know, I have somebody managing my company page and I'm just like, share, share, share, share. Like it just looks busier, but my personal. So, uh, yeah, it's, it's an interesting dynamic. So I'm really interested to know a little bit more about this four post strategy you have here.

So what is that about?

Katie Brinkley: Yeah, so it's, it's designed for people that don't wanna be on social media so much.

Angela Gennari: Mm-hmm.

Katie Brinkley: I think that with COVID, something that happened is all of a sudden we're like, oh, we have nothing better to do. I might as well just. Go on social media. Yeah. And the a, a great thing happened is, is we made great more connections.

We made having connections like this where you, you meet, I remember I went to an avalanche, Colorado avalanche game with my uncle and Yeah. Um, this was pre COVID, and on the sign it said, uh, like on the, the, the end board, it was said Zoom. And he goes, what's Zoom? And I was like, oh, it's this [00:04:00] thing called like where you do like video messaging.

He's like. Who does, who does that? I was like, well, I use it for work. But I mean, like, we don't really ever turn our cameras on. I mean, like Yeah. You know, and, and think about how much things have changed now and because of COVID, now we wanna see who we're talking to. Yeah. We want to know who we're doing business with and.

The world opened up though, and it's like, well, we have businesses to run. Um, how am I supposed to be dancing on TikTok and writing LinkedIn newsletters and doing all these things all the time and showing up as the face of my business when, you know, like I'm trying to like, get more leads. I'm the face, you know, like I, I have to be managing my business.

And so even though I have a social media agency, I'm a business owner first, and so I looked at what. Posts do the best for each different desired outcome, huh? And how can we do those types of posts so that we can just post for [00:05:00] our audience and get better results, be on less platforms, and get in, get out, and grow our business.

And that's where the four post strategy came to life.

Angela Gennari: I love it. So, so does this mean like you're only making four posts a week? Is that what that means?

Katie Brinkley: Hey, girl, if you're, you wanna be you, do you, if you wanna do four posts a day and use this still, this strategy, you can, um, yeah, I do three posts a week.

Angela Gennari: Wow. I mean,

Katie Brinkley: I just rotated through and do this strategy for three, but I mean, a lot of people do it for like, like Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday or whatever. Yeah. So whatever works best for you and your audience. That's, you know, it, it's, yeah. It's a framework that works and, um, I hopefully it will give you back more time and you'll be able to kind of enjoy being on social media again.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. So is it about predictability? Is that what, is that what helps with social media engagement or is it just like. Like [00:06:00] I don't understand algorithms at all. Like I feel like once you do start to understand it, they change it up on you and then it's a different thing and you have to like try to learn it again.

So I just try not to pay attention to it because I'm like, okay, this post is doing really, really well and I don't understand it because the one that I wrote that was like 10 times I thought better is like, you know, crickets. So.

Katie Brinkley: This comes down to like really knowing who your audience is mm-hmm. On each platform.

Mm-hmm. What is it that they need from you and what does the platform want you to do? So I mean, if you think about it, like there's a lot of social media scheduling tools out there. Metro Cool is one of my favorites. I don't know if you've ever heard of them and, and I, I get it. You can just. Tap a button and you can be everywhere.

It's that easy, folks. Mm-hmm. But when you're everywhere, honestly, then you're nowhere because you're just adding in white noise. So if you look at your audience and say, okay, this is who my audience is on LinkedIn, and this is the demographics, this is what types of [00:07:00] sales I've seen from them. This is what competitors are in my industry are doing on LinkedIn.

How can I replicate that? So that I can show up less. And that's, and that's really where I looked at all the data, all the different types of posts for different industries, different clients, and built out this four post strategy and it's, it comes down to. Saying, okay, this is my end goal. So, you know, Angela, maybe it's to get people to listen to this podcast episode.

Sure. You know, maybe that's your end goal. It's you want more downloads. You can't just show up and say, Hey, new podcast alert, because honestly, I hate, nobody cares. Right. Um, I mean, they might be like, oh, okay, Katie Brinkley's on it. Whoop, do, but like, if, if you're, they don't know who I am and my whole post less philosophy, they could care less, honestly.

So how can you get people to, to, to pique their interest and be like, Hmm, well that's interesting, and answer questions for them, but [00:08:00] they didn't even know that they had, and it's, it's by doing this four post strategy.

Angela Gennari: That's really interesting. So, so the port four post strategy, and I'm just trying to understand a little bit better, is where you're posting, but you're very specific about the demographic or the audience that you're posting to.

Katie Brinkley: Yeah, so for me, um, my. My largest audience is on Instagram and I've abandoned them. Oh gosh. I love you guys, all of you. But, um, I wasn't seeing the ROI there. I, it made me feel warm and fuzzy inside to get all the likes and stuff and be like, oh, look at, I got more followers. Yeah. But I mean, I wasn't, as a business owner, it was not converting for me.

Okay. So I was, I had to take a step back and I was like, all right, well. I'm not really gonna focus my efforts on Instagram anymore. So for me, I get all of a majority of my agency work, work from, uh, LinkedIn, uhhuh, and then I get a lot of my coaching clients from [00:09:00] Facebook.

Angela Gennari: Oh, interesting. Okay.

Katie Brinkley: So I know who I'm talking to on those platforms, and those are two different audiences.

So if I want to talk about an upcoming masterclass or I'm looking for new leads, or I wanna just talk about my book or something, I have to talk about it differently because I'm talking to different people. Does that make sense? Yeah, it totally does. Okay. So now that I know who I'm talking to on each platform, now I've, now I've got know who I'm talking to now, what is it that I want them to do?

And each week, or I mean like every month it could be something or, or every week it could be something, but knowing what the end goal is. Could it be listening to the podcast? Could it be signing up for a masterclass? Could it be buying the book, whatever it is. Yeah, that's your end goal. You're going to use your podcast or your blog as the content creator to get people to take that end action.

Okay. Okay.

Angela Gennari: So following me. Yeah. So there's always a call to action. Is that right? That there's always some sort of call to action? That's the

Katie Brinkley: fourth post is always it's called, that's the [00:10:00] action post. So the, the four posts are awareness, elaboration, community, and action. Oh, so on the fourth post is, that's the one that you're asking people to leave social media to go one step further with you?

Yeah. Um, and doing the call to action. But ev, those other three posts are all community driven and, and value driven. Interesting. Okay.

Angela Gennari: Very cool. So, and, and I probably flood LinkedIn with things because like I'll see a great article and I'm like, oh, people really love this article. And then I'll flood it with like a podcast thing and then I'll have like something about my actual, you know, my, my, yeah.

Other job. And so it, it just kind of is all over the place. And I'm like, I hope people are following me through all this because I feel like I can be a little all over the place and I'm probably not as structured as I should be on social media. But, um, but I also feel like there's personal branding that I'm doing.

Mm-hmm. And so personal brand comes into, she's A CEO, but she's also talks about, you know, her podcast and she also talks about, you know, being a woman in business and, [00:11:00] you know, so everything is somewhat relevant to who I am as a person. Mm-hmm. But they don't all have to do with the same thing. Is that watering it down or do you think that that's okay.

Katie Brinkley: I think it's okay. Um, just if you wanna, like you said, you, you kind of are, are flooding LinkedIn just knowing what the end goal is? Yeah. Behind every post. Okay. Um, and so, I mean, like, so for me, um, some of our clients like that we, we do four posts a week for them and then I say, okay. These days, I don't care what you do, you can share, you can post this stuff.

I want to do my strategy on these days. Don't touch it and mess it up, you know? Oh, interesting. They, they can still share, um, posts or whatever on, on the other days, but I think that the biggest thing is knowing what's in it for your audience. Mm-hmm. Why do they care? And LinkedIn is, honestly, it's really, it has a great algorithm.

Mm-hmm. It has a great. Way of pro, you know, getting your message further out there. Um, I've kind of stopped sharing other [00:12:00] people's content from my account and I've just started commenting on other people's content. Okay. 'cause it will still show up in your feed, your audience's feed that you commented on it, but now it's positioning you as a thought leader.

Oh, interesting. Okay. So like, oh, okay. Well, you know, Angela commented on Katie's post, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and then they can see your comment. First and then it, they'll see like, oh, well this is what she was talking, you know, commenting on. So, yeah.

Angela Gennari: Interesting. Yeah, that's a great point. And so one of the things that, I hear these things in passing and I don't really do enough deep dive into figuring out whether there's validity to it.

But um, I had read something where just sharing a post isn't necessarily gonna help your algorithm. You have to share and. Comment about it. Yes, so, so I can't just like, Hey, you know, I can't just like share the post. It's kind of a waste blindly. Yeah, yeah. Like you have to actually say something in the post and then [00:13:00] what?

That way it will really will connect it.

Katie Brinkley: Yep. It it, that's exactly right. Yeah. I mean, if you, if you want to share something, um, I 1000% agree that you should put in why you're sharing it, like what's, what's in it for them?

Angela Gennari: Right. Right, right. Yeah. That's, that's interesting. 'cause sometimes, sometimes, like I'll have.

You know, my social media people will post something on our company page and I'll just share it, but I don't say anything. And people are like, nah, you kind of have to say something. I'm like, what's my company? So of course I agree and I'm like, but you still have to say something.

Katie Brinkley: Yep, yep. Exactly. And I think that, you know, when you do that, it helps your audience know why you're sharing it.

Not just that you know, oh, it's your company, but like, I'm sharing this because I think X, Y, Z or whatever.

Angela Gennari: Interesting. Okay, so tell me, talk to me about what you think about TikTok, because I get all kinds of, like my son who is 18 has been saying for a few years, mom, if you're not on [00:14:00] TikTok, TikTok, you're not on social media.

And I was like, I just don't wanna, like, I don't feel like my audience is there.

Katie Brinkley: You don't need to be there.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. I'm like, I don't think that my audience is there. I'm not gonna dance to anything or like, you know, be silly or goofy or show. You know, share crazy, you know, controversial opinions about anything.

Like, if anything, I'm gonna talk about my podcast. And so, yeah. Um, yeah. So, but that's been a, TikTok is one of those things where I can't decide if it's something that we need to be on or not.

Katie Brinkley: Uh, I'm not on TikTok. Okay. So, but that's, I mean, for me, like I also abandoned Instagram. It's because I don't feel super confident on video.

Mm-hmm. Um. I would much rather be on a podcast or do a long form. You know, conversation like this. Like, that's okay. It's easier for me to create content that way. And, and yes. Does this take way more time? Yeah. But I think that it builds great connection and I, I feel more comfortable sharing it this way.

So if you're not on a platform, it, someone says, oh, you, [00:15:00] you're not on Facebook, you should be on face. Well, no, you don't. You don't, you don't need to do anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, you, you can be where you want to be. Um, and there, I mean, I think. At the time of this recording, I think that TikTok is not going anywhere.

Right? Um, you know, the ban has been extended again. Mm-hmm. I think it's just gonna keep doing that. Um, so I, I think TikTok will stay. Personally, I just don't thrive off of TikTok. I don't like consuming content that way, and I don't like create, creating content that way, so. Mm-hmm. Sure can't. If you want to, I mean, like one of our clients we manage, like she's got a hundred thousand followers on TikTok.

She loves TikTok. Mm-hmm. But for me, it's not, it's just not my jam. Like, and so, yeah. LinkedIn's your place. You can create content a ton of ways on LinkedIn. You can do polls, newsletters, videos, you know, uh, audio, all the things. So,

Angela Gennari: yeah. Yeah. Interesting. So what about, and this is kind of along the same [00:16:00] lines as TikTok, and we're talking about video.

Have you tried LinkedIn live? I have tried LinkedIn live. Yeah. What are your thoughts? I have not tried it.

Katie Brinkley: You know, a live video for me. Um, I'll tell you a little secret, uh, it's, it's tricky for me to go live, uh, right now, you know, we're having a live conversation together. Sure. But if, if I, if you said, okay, we're gonna go ahead and live stream this, I'd be real nervous.

Mm-hmm. You know, and nothing's changed. Yeah. I, it's not like I'm sitting in front of a, you know, studio audience or anything. Right. Uh, it just make, makes me nervous. So one thing that I do, uh, when I go live, quote unquote, is I use a tool called restream. So you take a recorded video and then you upload it and it goes live.

Like it would actually be going live on the platform. And uh, that's kind of a little secret that. I've used for going live on platforms because I don't, I'm not super confident doing it.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. Yeah, that makes total sense. Can you edit those? Can you like mm-hmm. Yeah. I [00:17:00] mean, like shorten you wanna go? Yeah.

Yeah. Totally. Yeah. 'cause that would, that would make me feel a lot better.

Katie Brinkley: Yeah. Well, I mean like live video, like this is the thing like. The, some people are made for, for live video. Yeah, sure. It makes no difference to 'em. Some people love doing short form content. You know, my, my account manager, she's amazing at short form content.

Um, but I mean, I can't get to the point, listen to me like, you're like, come on Katie. I asked you a question and you're still talking. No, I mean, but I mean, like, I can't, I can. Format myself to just go that way. It's just not how I'm wired. Yeah. And we're all different. And that's what's great about social media.

There's all these different platforms for you to create content the way you feel best creating it, and for you to consume content the way you best consume content.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, absolutely. And I totally agree with you. I had a, a media coach 'cause she's like, well, you know, if you're doing the podcast and you're doing this and you're CEO, you should, you should have a, you know, you should go out and do interviews on, on media.

And I realized I hate that. Like I actually hate it because I'm so [00:18:00] nervous and I have such a short amount of time to be able to respond to something and I can't get to the point quick enough for them to not want to cut away from me. So, yeah.

Katie Brinkley: Yeah, it's tough. I mean, there's a reason why we podcast. It's a lot.

I mean, I don't know. I love having conversations like this, and I, yeah. Like I do, I have my own show and on Thursdays I do solo episodes and it's a, the struggle bus for me to get it, you know, my, there's supposed to be shorter episodes and I'm like, oh, I wanna make sure it's like 10 minutes and it's always like 15 minutes.

So Yeah.

Angela Gennari: I know, I know. Well, and I'm glad that you knows. Some of the social media has allowed for slightly longer videos because I can do those a little bit better when you have to do a short snippet. I'm like, I didn't say anything in that short amount of time. Yeah. Like just went out there and mumbled a couple of things, but yeah.

So, uh, yeah. So where do you see social media evolving? So, you know, we're here in the TikTok and you know, LinkedIn live and all of that. Where do you see this all evolving to?

Katie Brinkley: Well, and it's interesting because AI's made such [00:19:00] a headways with everything over the past two years, like two years ago, if you would, I, I actually had someone come up to me and say, Hey, we'd love for you to be like our beta tester for our AI program, da, da, da.

And I was like, interesting. Hard pass. I don't wanna do anything with ai. You know, like, I'm not gonna have a computer. Right. For me, I'm not that lazy. And now, I mean, like. I use chat every day. You know, I, I, I mean, like always I'm using different AI tools. So the thing with, with AI and social media is I think that.

We're, it's getting incredible. I mean, the latest, you know, iteration of Chacha to come out, you can create some amazing images and it's, it's just getting smarter and it's just getting faster every single day. So glad that I don't own an AI SaaS company. 'cause goodness gracious, that would be a nightmare.

I don't know how people sleep if they do that, because, I mean, you're always, it

Angela Gennari: changes by the time you wake up in the morning. It's a whole different thing,

Katie Brinkley: right? Yeah. And so, um, yeah, I [00:20:00] think that. We're going to continue seeing AI in our, in our lives. Mm-hmm. And I think that right now we're seeing a lot of lazy social media because of it.

Mm-hmm. That's so true. Um. And you know, I talked about the four post strategy, like this four post strategy. You can do your entire month's worth of social media. Like once you get it down like in an hour. I'm not joking. Wow. You can do it very, very quickly because you know, okay, this is my end goal, this is who I'm talking to, and how am I gonna get people to get there, you know, take that action.

It's repeatable. You do it every single week, but. With ai, like I, I, I can, no one says delve nobody. No one says delve. Yeah. I've never once said treasure trove. Right. I like you. It's like blatantly obvious when people are just throwing something into Chacha PT and copying and pasting it and putting out there and being like, all right.

Done. Yeah. And that's not what social media was made for. It was made for us to build connection and to get to know [00:21:00] one another. Um, great thing, like some of it sounds lame. I'm not this lame, but I guess I, I guess I am this lame. Some of my closest friends I've only met in real life, like two or three times.

Like we talk on social media all the time. I keep up to date with like where they're at, how their kids are doing, and then I see 'em once a year at a conference. But I still consider them some of my closest friends and, and that's what social media can do. And if we're replacing ourselves with robots, then like so much of the magic will be gone.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. Well, you know, and this is kind of off topic, but somewhat related is, you know, I think that's why class reunions aren't a thing as much anymore because like we've tried to have class reunions over the past several years. Yep. And they all keep up with each other on Facebook, so they don't feel the need to get together.

It's not like, you know, our parents generation where, you know, you go to your 20 year class reunion, you're like, whatever happened to Bob, you know, Hey. Oh yeah. Yeah. You don't know unless you go to the class reunion. Um, you know, other than like rumors around town. But [00:22:00] like you, you have to like, yeah.

Physically go see people. And with the way we are now, it's like, oh yeah, I know he just took a new job and I haven't talked to him in 20 years, but I know everything about his life because he posted it all on Facebook. So, you know, it's, it's different. Like I don't feel like that connection has to be as, you know, like we we're able to kind of at least keep up.

And that way we do see each other. It's not like, oh, what have you been up to? Because you literally know you, like you literally know everything they've been up to because it's all on social media.

Katie Brinkley: It's crazy. Right? And I, I think, yeah, I mean, I think I'm supposed to have had, what year is it? Uh, my 25 year reunions next year or something.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I have no plans of going to it. Zero. Yeah, exactly. I, I really don't care about going at all because I'm like, oh, well, I. And conceive what everyone's up to, you know, on paper. Exactly. Yeah. You

Angela Gennari: don't have to like catch up with them that, you know, once every five, 10 years. 'cause you see their life in action on social media.

Yeah. So, yeah, totally true. But yeah, I've, I've been in [00:23:00] charge of planning the last couple and I'm done with that. Like, I'm like, I'm done, I'm done. You know, all the effort I've put into it and, you know, the whole consensus is, eh, you know? Yeah. Feel free to go. So. Yep. For sure. So, um, what trends are you seeing right now in social media?

So right now, I, I

Katie Brinkley: definitely see a lot of, um, ai, you know, like I said earlier, I think that. There's so many tools coming out, you know, like ai, like comment responders, and then a mm-hmm. You know, you can create amazing graphics now with ai and it's, it's inter, it's gonna be really interesting over the next, I was like a year ago, I have said five years, but I think over the next year just to see it's what happens because, I mean, like, there's tools that I use like syllabi, like that's a way that like.

I have like digitally cloned my voice, so like I can read certain things for like, you know, short form video rules. I mean, there's just so many things out there [00:24:00] that, that are just changing the way that we show up and in our world and online. And I think for social media, it's gonna be more important than ever to proactively try and.

Be present. Yeah. Does that make sense? Mm-hmm. Uh, so whether it's through a Facebook group or going live on LinkedIn or just having conversations with people in the dms that are actual conversations, not just bots.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. I

Katie Brinkley: think that's what's gonna be the differentiators is is the U aspect, the the person at the business.

Um, that's gonna be what people are going to find connection with. And if. Use ai. I mean, I'm not here to say don't use it, use it, um, use it as your co-pilot. But I mean, like you still need to be the one like. Landing the plane.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, I think the human element is a a big factor. Do you see people coming [00:25:00] back together to do networking?

Yeah, because I can see that people are missing that human interaction, and I can definitely see more of an emphasis on people engaging in person lately. But a lot of those connections are made on social media, like Yeah, that's exactly, my son is a perfect example. Like he will go. We went to, uh, Dominican Republic, and there was somebody there that he knew only from social media, and so they were able to connect in Dominican Republic, but they only ever met on social media.

And so it's kind of interesting to see. Yeah. You know, like you make friends in a, in a like alternate universe. Yeah. Oh, you come together in person. So that's,

Katie Brinkley: that's exactly it. Yeah. I, I think that it's, uh, well, I, I don't think that, you know. Ai, like vr, like the, the goggles, the headsets and stuff. Yeah. I, I don't think any of that stuff's gonna change.

I think that's gonna become even more prevalent. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, meta spent a bunch of money during the Super [00:26:00] Bowl to, to promote their meta ray band, you know? Mm-hmm. Glasses, right. I think that that's just the beginning. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I can see us, those glasses being just. Just the beginning of like, okay.

Oh, hold on. And then like all of a sudden like voice talking with someone, like hologram in front of you or something. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know, like I think that all that's gonna be make it so that we can have these social media relationships and you know, just. The tap of a button with some cool glasses, we can be quote unquote sitting in the same room together.

I know it sounds a little futuristic, but man, the more that like minority report, like all that stuff that they were doing and Minority Report, that movie and, uh, iRobot, I'm like, the future's coming to life.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. It really is. Like, it's crazy how much of that stuff is actually occurring right now. Like, I was complaining that I was like, my inbox is out of control and, you know, um.

My son was like, well, you know, there's this tool and it just goes through all of your emails. I'm like, what? Like, this is cra. Like, I was thinking to [00:27:00] myself like, I need an assistant. And he's like, no, you just need a nap.

Katie Brinkley: Yeah, you just need a nap. I, I have this gr this, that app. Well, I have an an inbox app and it's great.

It reads my emails, drafts up, you know, responses for me, clears out the stuff that doesn't make sense. Like, yeah, this is just promo. Yeah, kick it out. I'm like, oh yeah.

Angela Gennari: This is great. Yeah. Yeah. It's like $10 a month. Which one do you use? Serif. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. 'cause I, I've been trying to go through them and figure out which one is gonna be legit and what's, which one's is gonna, 'cause I was like, it'll take me a month to learn all this stuff.

Katie Brinkley: Yeah. Before I can, yeah. Serif is the one that I use. Uh, S-E-R-I-F. Okay. And, um. Yeah. You just super ch affordable. Oh, yeah. You know, you, you do have to give it access to your inbox, but I mean, like Right, right. It was a no brainer. Mm-hmm.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. That's definitely what I need with my 6,300 inbox, uh, unread emails.

Yes. You, you definitely need one. Yes. So, but you know, that's good stuff. Um, but anyway, so what else? Um, so as, as somebody [00:28:00] who is, you know, I have a personal brand, like I was saying, I've got my podcast and I've got my, you know, I'm the CEO of a security company. Yeah. So how important is it to continually build that brand awareness?

And then how does, you know, how do you focus? Because like if I've got three different things that I wanna try to build on, how do I kind of reach the people that I wanna reach without confusing them?

Katie Brinkley: Yeah, so I, I, you're in a really cool spot. This is, I think that. You are the, the next wave of influencers.

Mm-hmm. Um, and I don't know if like, I wish there was a better way, way of saying influencer, because I think a lot of us think of like, you know, Kim Kardashian or whatever like that. Yeah. But the CEO is the best person to be the spokesperson for your business. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because. That way you can share, Hey, this is my podcast.

This is what I think about this in the industry. This is what's going on here. This is where I'm speaking. This is where I'm networking. They're like, oh [00:29:00] yeah, Angela, she has this great company. Mm-hmm. I see. She's so smart. She shares all, she's always giving back to me, her audience. And honestly, you know, personal pages get better reach than company pages.

So by you stepping into the spotlight as the CEO, you are then getting way more reach than your company page ever will without having a paid ad. Yeah. So. This is, I think, the best way to grow your business, step into the spotlight, you know, having that podcast and amplifying what you, what your differentiator is.

And then people will say, well, of course I wanna do business with Angela. Yeah. Because she, I look at all the ways that they're different, you know, and so I, I think that it's, um. It's the right way to do things.

Angela Gennari: Well,

Katie Brinkley: thank you. That make, that makes me feel

Angela Gennari: really good about it because sometimes I'm like, am I just throwing out everything and like, you know, just seeing what sticks.

But, but ultimately, you're right. I mean, I do feel like the [00:30:00] company has grown as I have grown, you know, as, as my network has grown on social media, the company th benefits from that because, you know, like. Satan. We're just, we were a small regional company, but we have a, a more national presence because of how much I do, you know, with speaking engagements and with the podcast and other, other things because we do get that, you know, bigger exposure.

It's not just the people who know us locally, but you know, me talking about it on the podcast and on social media is also a big factor. Yeah.

Katie Brinkley: Yep. That it, it's, it's the way to do it. Um, and I think that, you know, like a lot of people get nervous about. Stepping into the spotlight. Mm-hmm. But especially when you have the four post strategy.

Yeah. It makes it so that you are strategic with what you say. You're showing up and giving value with every post. You're not just wasting someone's time. Mm-hmm. And you're helping amplify the bigger message of what your business does and how you can serve your audience.

Angela Gennari: Absolutely. Yeah. I'm a, and I'm a big believer [00:31:00] in like, you know, write white papers and blogs and, you know, kind of be a thought leader.

And I mean, even when we interview now, like when I'm interviewing for managers, I'm like, look, if I'm the only thought leader in the company. Then I've got the wrong management team. Like, I want you all to be thought leaders. I want, yeah. And the bad thing is with that is I'm constantly having recruiters call my managers and try to recruit them because they, you know, I am pushing them to do more on LinkedIn.

And the more of a following you have, and the more of a presence you have, the more noticeable you are. And then recruiters are knocking down their doors and I'm like, okay, leave my people alone.

Katie Brinkley: Yeah.

Angela Gennari: But yeah. It's a double-edged sword, but at the same time, I do want them to be thought leaders. Like I want them to have, um, you know, that, that credibility in the market because it, it does matter.

Katie Brinkley: Yeah. And, and it's true. And I think that, I love that you're empowering your employees because it's the, the more that we can all share online, the more the business will be seen. And, you know, it's, uh, [00:32:00] that's what people, people wanna do business with. People. Yeah. That's, it's as easy as that. And so true.

You know, if, if, if they know who they're working with, it's gonna make a world of difference.

Angela Gennari: Mm-hmm. Well, and one of the things I love about the podcast is, you know, I have a business persona, right? Like mm-hmm. And, you know, that can come across as, as somewhat unapproachable. Right. And so when you, when you have a business, you know, persona, then you might not be as approachable.

But my podcast, I'm very vulnerable, I'm very transparent. Mm-hmm. Like, I don't mind making mistakes. I don't mind, you know. Telling people how I really feel about things. And so, but I think that that vulnerability helps to connect and so that that additional ability for people to under understand who I am and what I stand for, helps people to connect with me and know that I'm a real person and not just, you know, the, an executive at a company.

Katie Brinkley: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Angela Gennari: So you talked about, um, LinkedIn was, or. [00:33:00] Instagram wasn't converting from for you. Yeah. But LinkedIn does. So what does converting mean and how do you measure that?

Katie Brinkley: Yeah, so, you know, I've written a book, uh, the Social Shift, Uhhuh and I have a podcast. But I noticed that while it was, I, I love my, I love my podcast and I love selling my book, but I mean, honestly, like, that's my, like, podcast is free.

Um, yeah. And the book is $15. Yeah. So. That's where I was selling my book, and that's where I was getting podcast downloads was from my audience on Instagram. It lined up really well. Whenever I would ask questions, they were always chiming in. Um, so I was like, okay, well what if I handed this off to my, one of my assistants and they just did the podcast?

Promotion, uh, and handled all of that. And then we took over, you know, I can focus my actual time of writing posts and putting thought into things on these other platforms because it's not, it's not worth my time to. [00:34:00] To hopefully get 15 bucks a week, you know? Right, right. For all the effort that it takes on social media.

So that's why I, I decided to kind of, as I said, abandon Instagram because I, I wasn't get getting those agency clients. Mm-hmm. I wasn't getting those, uh, coaching clients from Instagram. Mm-hmm. They just not who my demographic was there. Uh. Either that there were a lot of do it yourselfers. Right. Which is cool.

That's fine, that's fine. Buy my book, you know, buy it. Yeah. Yeah. But, um, on LinkedIn, you know, that's where I can get my, you know. $3,000 a month, clients, like it's way worth my time to just write really good co copy and engage over there and spend my time there when I am doing my social media time because it has a better ROI.

Mm-hmm. So that, that's where, I mean, like really looking at your data and if you have, if you don't know how to do this, you know, [00:35:00] if you're set up as a LinkedIn creator account. You can get this data. If you're a Instagram creator, Facebook creator, they give you all of these da, all the data and all the metrics.

Mm-hmm. Um, I know I mentioned metrical earlier, that one, you have to, you have to pay for it, but I mean, it's not expensive. Um, but that's a paid tool, but it puts everything into one, you know, doc, uh, but you can check everything out on. LinkedIn and Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, everything for free. Uh, you just have to know where to look, and I, I do recommend doing it at least once a quarter because you might be surprised and, and honestly, ask your audience, you know, there's been times where on LinkedIn I was like, I don't know if anyone here would really be a good, you know.

Lead for my next masterclass. I was like, who here has a podcast? That was all my question was, you know, and I wanted to see like, okay, on Facebook I had like X amount of people commenting back. I have a podcast and then on LinkedIn I only had X amount and I [00:36:00] was like, okay. Yeah. So Facebook's definitely where I need to go in and like pitch this next masterclass because yeah, my audience here, way more of them have a podcast.

Okay. Not to say that the LinkedIn people didn't matter, but I, you know, I could be like, eh. What, what? I could sell them something else. I could do something else for them.

Angela Gennari: Absolutely. Okay. Very cool. So what obstacles did you have to overcome when you were starting your business? Because I know you said you had gotten laid off and then you're like, all right, I'm gonna take the leap and I'm gonna go do my own thing.

So tell me what obstacles you had to overcome to do that. I,

Katie Brinkley: I think that the biggest obstacle was myself really. Yeah, I, I, I didn't know what, I didn't know Uhhuh and uh. Hiring. I, I took too long to hire my first employee. I took too long to hire my first coach. I took too long to hire my COO and, you know, all of that.

It's scary. Um mm-hmm. And because it's like, oh well, and taking away money, you know, but honestly, [00:37:00] it's just gonna help you make more. Yeah, really it helps you make more. Uh, my, my very first coach that I invested in was $10,000 and I was, I remember I lost so much sleep over it really? And I was like, gosh, what have I done?

I can't believe I'm spending this much money and. It was the best thing I did for my business because really? Well, I mean, he could have, since I invested so much money, he could have said, Katie, go run across the, you know, the street naked and I guarantee it's gonna not been okay. Sure. Whatever you say.

Right. You know, because I, I'm trusting you, but I think find a coach that you can trust, um, invest in staff, um, invest in your team and find. A good team because that, that was some of the biggest things that I held back on. Um, I, I was the hold up with a lot of processes and so hiring that COO was great.

'cause like I was the bottleneck. I thought everything needed to go through me. I thought everything needed, you know, like, oh, well I know [00:38:00] this client really well. The client really trusts how I'm doing things. It's like, well, no, I've, I've trained my entire team on my strategies, on my philosophies. I've hired people that honestly, in some aspect.

My brand account manager, she's incredible at short phone video, like I said. Mm-hmm. Like I suck at it. That's why I hired yours, because she's better at it than me. So, I mean, yeah. This is just where I, I, I think when I first started, I just didn't know. What I didn't know, like now, that'd be one of the very first things I would do is like, okay, when I'm building a business, I'm gonna hire these people.

Angela Gennari: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I, you know, I did the exact same thing that you did. I waited way too long to hire my first employee. I waited way too long to start delegating. I still thought everything had to go through me, and then it was me being the bottleneck and stopping I was stunting our growth, you know? Yeah. Like I was the reason we weren't able to get through and I finally have gotten outta my own way, but I'm.

Still learning. I'm still work in progress for sure. So

Katie Brinkley: yeah, it's, you know, that's the joys of entrepreneurship, right?

Angela Gennari: Yeah, [00:39:00] sure is. So what, um, what advice would you give to your 18-year-old self?

Katie Brinkley: Ah, yeah. You know, I, I think that for, for me, probably I was always meant to be an entrepreneur. Yeah. But I needed to do some of these other, some of the other jobs in order to, to understand.

Okay, this is what I wanna do. And to, to get some of the learnings. Um, I think there's nothing wrong, uh, being an entrepreneur. I think a lot of us are, you know, like, okay, well what do you wanna be when you grow up and you go to college and then this and this and this. And, um, it's not to say my college education is a waste of time.

Mm-hmm. By no means is it, but I think that. L learn from, uh, as many events as you can go to networking events. Mm-hmm. Uh, learn from those around you because there's a lot out there. Uh, like YouTube is free university. Um, yeah. [00:40:00] And there's a lot of great tools out there. There's a lot of very smart people out there.

And the more people, you know, the more people you talk to, the, you know, the, the faster you'll grow.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, absolutely. I agree with you because, um. That was one of the things, like I got out of college and then I just doubted myself because I had a psychology degree. I didn't have a business degree. And I'm like, ah, I'm not ready to be an entrepreneur.

But you learn as you go and those are the most valuable lessons that you can ever learn. And by waiting and by making mistakes. Yeah. Yeah. And by waiting, you're not learning anything. Right. All you're doing is, you know, delaying the inevitable. You're gonna have to learn hard lessons. Just get comfortable with that and, and you'll be okay.

Yep. So, so one of the things I ask all of my guests is, you know, as women we give away our power, you know, a lot. And so, um, you know, and that comes in many different forms, but can you tell me about a way that you gave away your power and maybe another time that you stepped into your power?

Katie Brinkley: Yeah, I think [00:41:00] that, you know.

One of the things that, for me, it's, and I'm sure a lot of your listeners and you too, is the, I get the decision fatigue. Yeah, yeah. Um, I'm, I get real tired at the end of the day from making a lot of decisions. Um, and it's, it's hard because I'm, I'm a planner. Yeah. Yeah. I like planning things. I like knowing where I'm going and stuff and being just.

Releasing that and saying to my husband and saying like, you know, I got deci decision fatigue. I can't make a call on dinner tonight. Mm-hmm. Like, you literally work from home. Like, I, I can't do it. You know? Right. So I think that telling people when you are feeling, you know, overwhelmed or when you do need to take a step back and there's nothing wrong with it.

There's nothing wrong with not. Making all the decisions. Yeah.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, that's so true. Um, yeah, and it does get overwhelming sometimes. Uh, you know, and sometimes I'll just sit there and I'll, I'll [00:42:00] look at my son and be like, you know what, tonight we're having Chinese from across the street. Yeah. I don't wanna think about anything else.

So. Yeah. Absolutely. So, um, I've really enjoyed our conversation. This has been really, really fun. Um, but, uh, one more question that I have for you is, what do you wish more people knew?

Katie Brinkley: Uh, probably to enjoy, uh, the one-on-ones. Mm-hmm. Really to, to enjoy talking with people. Enjoy being in real life.

I think that, you know, especially my daughter, she's getting older.

Angela Gennari: Yeah.

Katie Brinkley: She's, a lot of her friends are getting phones. Mm. You know, I'm like, just enjoy being with them. Yeah, in the moment.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. Yeah. It's so important because they get, they, my son's about to graduate from high school and we just went on a spring break trip and so many vacations.

You know, I [00:43:00] recall kind of working and not really being there for him. So I made a very mindful decision this week where last week that I was not working at all, and that was one of the hardest things to do because you're constantly like, I should be doing this, I should be doing this. You're like, I know these emails are stacking up, but.

You have to make a conscious decision to be present because the work will never stop. But no, the children will definitely get older and move out

Katie Brinkley: well, and yeah, I mean it's, we only get one life, so lets, uh, make, make it count, so. Mm-hmm. Social media is a great tool. But don't have a take over your

Angela Gennari: life.

Yes, absolutely. Um, so this has been really fun. So Katie, where can people find you?

Katie Brinkley: Yeah, you can check me out online. Okay. Uh, LinkedIn's my favorite, Katie Brinkley. Um, I have a podcast. It's called Rocky Mountain Marketing. Nice. And, uh, yeah, I, I'd love to connect with anyone. Check out my book. It's uh, katie brinkley.com/book.

Angela Gennari: Very cool. Well, and I will be out in Denver this month because, uh, yay. We're working on the Denver Pride event, [00:44:00] so we've got a meeting out there, so, um, are you in Denver?

Katie Brinkley: Yeah, I'm actually just in South Denver, so. Nice. Our office is there. Okay. Yeah, like South Broadway is where I'm located.

Angela Gennari: Oh, very beautiful.

Okay. Very cool. Well, thank you so much for your time. It's really, um, it's been an enjoyable conversation and I wish you tremendous amounts of luck, um, with everything that you're doing.

Katie Brinkley: Thanks again for having me.

Angela Gennari: Absolutely, and we will catch everybody the next time on the Pretty Powerful podcast. Have an amazing day, everybody.

Bye-bye.

Intro: Thank you for joining our guests on the pretty powerful podcast. And we hope you've gained new insight and learn from exceptional women. Remember to subscribe or check out this and all episodes on pretty powerful podcast.com. Visit us next time and until then, step into your own power.