Episode 128: Carol Kabaale

Carol Kabaale

Intro: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Pretty powerful podcast where powerful women are interviewed every week to share real inspiring stories. And incredible insight to help women or anyone break the barriers, be a part of innovation, shatter the glass ceiling, and dominate to the top of their sport industry, or life's mission.

Join us as we celebrate exceptional women and step into our power. And now here's your host, Angela Gennari. Hello,

Angela Gennari: welcome to another episode of a pretty powerful podcast. My name is Angela Gennari, and today I'm here with Carol Al. Hi, Carol.

Carol Kabaale: Hi, I'm so excited to be here, Angela, thank you for having me.

Angela Gennari: Thank you for joining me.

So Carol Kabaale is a meta certified ads strategist who helps online business coaches grow their impact through purpose driven Facebook ad campaigns. Very cool. So first of all, where are you? 'cause your accent is just stunning.

Carol Kabaale: [00:01:00] Oh, I love it. So I am actually based in South Africa, but originally my family's from Cuba.

C Long way to go, but like nice little mix.

Angela Gennari: I love it. Very cool. I have been to Cuba, but I have not been to South Africa. Cool.

Carol Kabaale: Oh well now you have to come 'cause now you have a friend yet.

Angela Gennari: Yes, absolutely. Yes. I've been dying to go, actually, it's one of the places that just looks, uh, unbelievably stunning.

So.

Carol Kabaale: Very

Angela Gennari: cool. Well,

Carol Kabaale: honestly, I really do mean if you wanna come, we could go to Safari anytime. I'm a sucker for a safari, so Oh,

Angela Gennari: do

Carol Kabaale: not sense me.

Angela Gennari: We'll go safari together. I love that. So tell me what made you wanna get into the digital marketing space?

Carol Kabaale: So I was a very traditional person, right? Uhhuh, I was, because I'm a child of immigrants, I was basically living my life, like ticking boxes, you know, go to university, get good grades, get a job.

So I did all the right things, right? And when I got into my corporate job, I found that I loved the people. Shout out to everybody at my corporate job. [00:02:00] But I hated my job. Oh. So that sort of happened Uhhuh, and in that, um, I was engaged at the time, um, well, not engaged. I was in a relationship at the time for nine years.

Mm-hmm. Um, the joke that we often make is he was waiting for my blood types. So ladies. Waiting nine years. The key is give him your blood type and he will propose. Okay. All right. And once I got that, um, my now husband proposed and I just sort of thought, I don't wanna do this for like the rest of my life.

You know, it just felt like so. Really, I'm gonna have to wait till like I'm 40 or 50 or 60 to have real freedom and real choice. And I was like, no, no, no. Something's gotta give. Especially 'cause I felt that in the industry I was in, I worked in hospitality. I was living past everyone when everybody was on vacation.

I was at work, yeah, when everybody was at birthdays and living and Christmases, I was at work and I hated that. So [00:03:00] I got into the digital space, um, very long story short, Uhhuh by identifying what I loved in my current business development role. And what I loved was serving people. I loved working with data and I loved being creative and that led me to first social media marketing uhhuh.

And then it led me to a more data-driven, um, piece of marketing, which is ads. And that's what I do now. That was eight years ago, so, yeah.

Angela Gennari: Very cool. So you've had your business for eight years. That's wonderful.

Carol Kabaale: Yeah, I, I always say it and it like, feels weird. It's like a pinch me moment. Like, really? Wow, we've been in this Well,

Angela Gennari: yeah.

Well, good for you. Eight years. I mean, uh, we're, we're about to celebrate 10 years in this business that I, when I started this 10 years ago, and it's such an accomplishment for an entrepreneur to reach these milestone moments. You know, the first milestone is one year because a large percentage of businesses fail, right?

Like right off the bat. It's, as soon as they get into it, they're like, oh, wow, this is really hard. And they bail out. And then the [00:04:00] three year mark is when, I think it's like 80% of businesses fail in the first three years. And so like once you hit three years, you're like, check that box. I did it. I had that stating power.

And then five years is usually a big deal. But yeah. So to hit eight. Good for you. That is amazing. Good for you. Thank, thank you. That that's a real, like, you know that that is a real, like my company is a real thing. So then Good. Oh.

Carol Kabaale: It always pinched me moments, I think. Like I always think like, do I really have a company?

Right. You know, I don't know about you, but sometimes you get these like little comments in your circles of friend, how's your little business doing? And I'm like, been at this for eight years. I know,

Angela Gennari: I know. Yeah. So when, when we first started our business, so I had my first business with my ex-husband, and, um, his parents would always say, so I was looking at other jobs, and I just thought, maybe it's time for a real job.

And I'm like, this is a real job. Like, I work so hard. It's like, yeah. But yeah, when they, when they stop saying that you need to find a real [00:05:00] job, that's, that's a good thing. Yeah. Then, then your business is, is serious. Oh, I

Carol Kabaale: love it. Okay, well I think I've got two more years to figure that out. You'll be

Angela Gennari: great.

You, you are, you are definitely on the long-term track. So good for you. Um, so, so eight years of, of doing this, and tell me how your business has evolved in that time.

Carol Kabaale: I would say my business has evolved in three ways. So I always think this is version three of my agency. So when I first started, I would say the first three years I actually did it alone by myself.

Um, it was the first time I was like very much a solopreneur. I had like maybe one team member, one support person, like a va. And I sometimes got something from a graphic designer, but it was very much me. I was doing everything and it. Because I went from like trading a nine to five to literally working 24 hours.

Right. And I was like, what am I doing? Right, exactly. This a joke. Uhhuh, this is terrible. So in light of that, I [00:06:00] actually went into partnership with someone. Um, and that was really nice 'cause she had her own agency and I had my own agency and we kind of just combined our agencies together. So that was version two.

Um, it came with a lot of challenges and things I had to learn. Like, for example, I took on the role of very much like operations manager and like I did all the backend kind of work, fulfillment of what we had to do. Okay. And she took the role of more like sales and selling and you know, each of us played our strengths.

And that was great. And that's really when we grew a team and we had to create SOPs and we had to like, like now it was a real thing. Like now I'm like really getting serious. So that was great. And I did that for like about, let's see, so that was three. So then I, I would say another three years or three or four years, I did that.

And then, um, in the last. I would say like three years, not four years, like three years. I did that another three years, and we parted ways because we both had different goals. So [00:07:00] ultimately my goal in life was never to have a seven figure business and eight figure business. Like I'm, I'm not here for the revenue.

Look. I like nice things, don't get me wrong. I love Nice. I mean, who doesn't? But my thing was always having choice, always having time freedom. You know, I aspire to have like days where I don't wanna work today and I wanna spend time with my future. Tiny humans, I wanna do that. Yeah. Yeah. I don't really wanna, like I.

I don't know, grow a team and have a building. It was never my thing, but it was very much her thing. So because our ultimate, like, if you call it exit strategy, was really never in alignment. That partnership had to dissolve. Um, and in it, I actually thought, oh my gosh, this is terrible. I've spent six years of my life and I'm back at zero.

That's really how it felt in the moment.

Intro: Wow.

Carol Kabaale: Because when we split, um, she kept everything.

Angela Gennari: And

Carol Kabaale: I just was like, I'm not gonna fight for anything I don't want, I just wanna be iCal. If you want it, you take it. I don't really [00:08:00] care. And that was it. And to me, that was actually such a great choice that I made because it allowed me to pick up the best parts of what I had learned.

So I now call this the third iteration of my business and it's truly the like the best one. Yeah, it's the best one. I can't. Everything that I've learned from the past two, it has all my values, it has dream clients, and I am so thankful for every single version that brought me to this moment, because in the moment I couldn't see it, I was just like, oh my gosh.

There goes six years of my life. I'm basically starting from zero, but I forgot all the lessons and everything I learned. So when I started from Xero, I wasn't truly starting from zero. It was like. Let's go. Implement, implement, implement. And yeah, this version is honestly like I could say my best version yet.

Angela Gennari: Oh, that's brilliant. That is so brilliant. Because you were able to see things that so many entrepreneurs miss. So not [00:09:00] only did you see, okay, I'm gonna grow my business by. Getting a partner. And I think that that's a really, really smart way to grow a business because as you know, in your first three years, and I did this exact thing, when you are every part of the business, you have no ability to take any time off you.

You have no flexibility. You know, like all the reasons they say, you know, entrepreneurs will. Stop working 40 hours so that they can go work 80 hours for themselves. And this is so true, like, and then we have a hard time releasing things, right? So we feel like we have to hold onto every aspect of our business, you know, from accounting, to marketing, to sales, and we become the business and, and so it was very great.

It was just so smart that you said, you know what? I'm gonna bring on a partner and share in the responsibilities. And then you guys did that. You really went into your space and you thrived in doing what you do best. And I think that that was a really brilliant approach. Um, now the other part of that is you have [00:10:00] to partner with the right person, right?

Like, you have to make sure your goals and are are in alignment. And that can be a big challenge. Like for me, I, you know, with my. Um, my former partner, I was similar in that I wanted to grow and expand and do things and, you know, make it a big company. And he was more interested in like, I just want life balance.

Like I just want, you know, to be able to do what I do. For myself and not have anyone else tell me what to do every day. But I was in growth mindset and he wasn't like, no, I we're perfectly good where we're at. And so that was a big, you know, awakening for me as well, is my partner. And I didn't see eye to eye on where we wanted the business to go.

And so like you, I walked away from all of it. Um, mm-hmm. But you're right, the, the, the things that you learn in that time period, 'cause you know, the first major thing that you learned is that you can become more efficient and more effective with your time by having a partner who can compliment your strengths and weaknesses, [00:11:00] right?

So that is a huge, huge learning experience. And then you, you learn. You know, I need the right partner who has the same end game in in mind and you know, wants the same thing outta the business because we all define success differently, right? So some of us might define success as am I happy when I wake up in the morning, you know, if I'm happy when I wake up in the morning.

That is success to me no matter what the bank account shows. And some people say, I just want enough so that I can feel comfortable in my life. But I don't wanna, you know, I wanna be able to have hobbies and pursue other interests outside of work. And so some people define success strictly based on what's in their bank account, so, mm-hmm.

You know, having that same value system is really, really critical. I. But good for you for realizing it and then also for realizing like, Hey, I'm gonna take all the best parts of what I learned and I'm gonna start out in the very best way possible. Because you do learn so much from these things, and there is no such thing as failure.

As long as you've learned from [00:12:00] it and you've said, you know what, I, I, I see what I did wrong. I see how I can make that change and I'm just gonna do better. And that's, love that.

Carol Kabaale: Yeah. Yeah. I love that a hundred percent. My Angelou

Angela Gennari: is one of the, the smartest people I've ever known. And you know, I always say her quote, uh, you know, we do the best we can with what we know.

When we know better, we do better. That's, that's the one when you know better, you do better. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. So as long as we're learning, we're growing and you know, there, there's nothing wrong with that at all. So good for you. What an amazing journey. Thank you. I

Carol Kabaale: appreciate that. I think I needed that today, so thank you.

Angela Gennari: You're welcome. So, um, so you went into a very specific niche industry. So you went into Facebook ads. So what exactly about Meta attracted you? And then what is it that you do that helps people to understand how to be effective with their ads?

Carol Kabaale: So in very layman's term what I do is I help people amplify their messaging.

Okay. Or amplify [00:13:00] what they have. I don't want people to think, I always think like people think about like ads and SEO and all these things and coding Yeah. As like some mythical, magical thing. Mm-hmm. It's not that difficult. Does. I mean, it's a little difficult, but it's not that difficult. Once you understand it, it's like, oh, that's what they're doing.

That makes sense? Mm. So in essence, all I do is I take what you have and I put it in front of the right people. I make sure that your people, they find you. So you're not depending on what I like to call the algorithm gods. You're not praying. You're not like creating content and creating and creating and hoping and wishing and I don't know, giving offerings to go viral.

Yes, yes. What I'm doing is, I'm trying to say to that algorithm, Hey, I understand that this platform is, has become a pay to play platform. Mm-hmm. So with that being said, I am going to give you money and in exchange you will show my content to the right people. So that's kind of what I do. Mm-hmm. A nutshell, but where it becomes special and what I think really makes [00:14:00] me different from other ads people is that we don't just focus on the ads.

The ads are great, but the ads are like just the thing that brings the eyeballs. What you really wanna have is an ecosystem in place. You wanna have touch points. After that, like what happens afterwards? Right. So you grab an email now what? So they listen to your podcast now What? So they've booked the call now what?

Mm. So what my team and I really focus on is creating these ecosystems outside of social. So the reason I focus so much on outside of social is because like four years ago I was hacked and I literally. Lost everything. I lost my personal Facebook and it was gone. And I mean like, you're like, oh, Carol, it's just a Facebook account.

Well, it's the Facebook account where I met my husband. It had all my cringey teenage photos. It had a lot of me, okay. It had a lot of personality. There were a lot of peace signs. Okay. A lot of millennial moments gone. Now, that being said, also a huge part of [00:15:00] my business was built off that account. I made a lot of connections.

I made a lot of like. Friendships. I had a group with way over 5,000 members in it all gone in a day.

Angela Gennari: Oh wow.

Carol Kabaale: Right. But it's okay because I had an email list. Okay? So instead of like being in the corner and crying for too long, I'm not gonna lie, I did cry. You have to feel your fatigue sometimes. I did cry a little, but after that initial shock wore off, I was like, okay, let's get on with it.

And I just sent out an email and I said, Hey guys, this happened. Let's move on. Here's where I'm at. This is what I'm doing. And I didn't want that to ever happen to me or any of my clients again. So that's why I advocate so much on building. On your own sandbox. Don't depend on Mr. Zuckerberg's sandbox like he is.

Great. Thank you for allowing us to play there, but I'm gonna move people away from them. Yeah,

Intro: yeah. It's like

Carol Kabaale: we're going to the second location and it's not gonna be scary. Nothing bad is gonna happen. In fact, that's actually where the fun things happen at the second location. Come see.

Angela Gennari: I [00:16:00] love it. That's very cool.

So, um. So when you are trying to design an ad or you're trying to kind of create that, that viral ability, I'm just gonna make up this word, viral ability. Um, what, what do you say, what are the components of getting a really good ad together?

Carol Kabaale: I would say it's the right offer, Uhhuh to the right person at the right time.

That's like basic marketing, but that's really what it comes down to because. People will take action when they are ready to buy, right? Mm-hmm. Not like when we wanna sell them. Yep. That's another, that's why I also feel that. The biggest, one of the biggest mistakes that I see people making when they wanna run Facebook ads is they wanna drive ads straight to the sale.

Mm-hmm. They wanna drive ads straight to buy my course, buy my program, book a call. These are high like intent things. Yeah. Okay. Let's imagine, Angela, you and me, we just, we we're good. We're girls great. We're like [00:17:00] chilling, chilling. We're at a bar together. It's great. We're having a great time. And at this bar, some gentleman comes up to both of us.

And he's like, oh, you guys are great. Let's do it. Let's chill. Um, by the way, Carol, I'd love to marry you. Oh gosh. You and me. I both gonna look at him like, um, excuse me, son.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, right, right. You said what?

Carol Kabaale: You wanna work with me? That's the same feeling that we're putting into people when we're like, by my stuff and I'm like, who are you?

Why should I buy your stuff? Like, go away. Ew. Like, right, right. So instead of doing that by building other type of ads, so, and awareness ads, making sure that the people who already follow you know about you and are getting warmer by building like lead generation ads where you, again, are moving people off social and into your ecosystem, it becomes an easier yes because they know you, because they've had multiple touch points from you.

So when you finally say, [00:18:00] Hey, I'm launching this thing, or I have this service. It's like, oh yeah, I should go to Carol. She's that ads person. I have been thinking about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I'm gonna, I'm

Angela Gennari: gonna, I'm

Carol Kabaale: gonna

Angela Gennari: go with her. Interesting. That makes so much sense. Like, you know, intuitively when you put it in that way, I'm like, yeah, why didn't I think of?

Because you're right. I mean, we go straight in, we go, we go right in, into their face with the, with the offer of like, buy my stuff. Right. Whereas we're not really taking the time to educate people. We're not really, you know, introducing ourselves properly. So you're, you're absolutely right, and it makes so much sense when you say it.

Why is it not clicking? For me, when I was thinking about it in my own head,

Carol Kabaale: my husband says, sometimes you have to hear things from other people. Often he tells me things and then somebody else will say something. I'm like, oh my gosh. She won't believe what Angela said. Mm-hmm. Right. Oh, oh, did she now? Oh, that's great.

Yeah. Yeah. So sometimes I think we just need to hear it from other people. I also think there's so much choice out there [00:19:00] today, like, look, when I, I don't wanna tell people my age because, you know, I. Right. I use a lot of product to hide away on my grades, but back in my day, okay. Choice was very limited.

Okay. You had things like a phone book. You had things like very limited Google, like your choices were very like limited. Yeah. Now. Everyone and their cat really can be famous, can sell you things, can do things. So choice is so broad. The main thing that will set you apart from other people is staying top of mind.

'cause again, people will buy when they find that they need that solution. So by you nurturing and staying top of mind, not depending on the algorithm, yeah, you're gonna be the obvious voice when that comes up. You know?

Angela Gennari: Yeah, yeah. That totally makes sense. So, you know, the, the one thing about being a small business and trying to advertise on Facebook is it feels like you could just spend thousands of dollars and I could go into a black hole and you're like, what did I [00:20:00] spend money on?

Like mm-hmm. So as an entrepreneur, how can we be effective with our money? So what, what strategies would you give to somebody who says, look, I only have $500 a month, or I only have a thousand dollars a month to spend on Facebook ads. How can I make that go far?

Carol Kabaale: So the first thing I would say, treat it as an investment.

Okay. We're not gambling. Okay? We're not taking money and throwing it into this machine and overnight become billionaires. Yes. Someone is promising you that. Please run. Yeah. Actually don't walk, run. I. Now. Second thing is I want you to adjust your expectations. Mm-hmm. So if you have a small budget, if you're only spending like $2 a day, $3 a day, $10 a day, your audience or your screen, I want you to think about it as like a screen.

It's gonna be quite small. It's gonna be like the size of a cell phone. Now we all have cell phones, so that means like people will look at their phone. It's just a little screen and there's a lot of distractions, so the likelihood of a conversion is gonna be lower. Now, people who have [00:21:00] bigger budgets, they're spending like a thousand dollars, $500, I don't know, a lot of money.

Their screen is huge. Yeah. So hence the people who drop off will be less, or maybe it'll be more and they'll get higher conversions, but that's just because their screen is bigger. So what I want you to do is adjust your expectations. Okay? You only have $2 to spend. Understand that for maybe like a week, you'll run your ads and you'll get like a baseline.

Let's use baby numbers 'cause it's a little bit late in my time and I don't want like to get confused. So let's say you're spending $10 a day, okay? And in that you get, like you're looking for emails, right? And to get one email, it costs you, you get 10 emails. And you spend $10. So you get 10 emails, you spend $10.

Mm-hmm. Each email costs you $1 to get, that's baby mats right? Now, if you get only two emails that cost you $5 per email, you need to sit with yourself, right? And you need to say, is this enough for the top of my funnel? Is this enough new people coming into my world [00:22:00] for me to ultimately close them? Now remember, these people are just at the top.

They're just like getting to know you. They're vibing, they're feeling you out. You need to move them down. And we all know that to get someone from thinking to the final sale, people are gonna drop off Uhhuh. So if you are only getting like 300 new people and your close rate is only like 1%, that's only three people.

Yeah. Are you happy with those numbers? Right. If the answer is no, you're gonna have to increase your budget or you're gonna have to create better ads in terms of like getting a better offer, getting better, um, audiences creating like better captions or something like that. Those are the only variables you can really change.

If you don't move those variables, it means that you're gonna have to spend more. Yeah, it's just as plain as simple as that. You cannot expect a $2 ad to bring you 500 people. Like. Right. The math is not math thing. Right, right. I like math, but that's not it.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. So [00:23:00] as, as somebody who wants to spend a little bit of money or I hear all kinds of different strategies, like put your competitors, um, you know, names into the ad or put this or put the, like how do I create and what is the difference between keywords?

And, um, audience like how, because when I started doing an ad, it says, ask me all about my audience and ask me what the keywords are and what the s like, I don't know, SEO. And so how can I create that, that, you know, narrow down enough audience that I'm gonna have an impact. But also 'cause like it will default to this massive audience and you're like, woo, that's, that's a lot of people that are gonna see this ad.

I don't need all those people to see the ad. Right? Because if I have all those people, then 90% of them wouldn't buy me buy from me anyway. 'cause it's not my audience. So how do you start that process of narrowing down? So

Carol Kabaale: in meta it's actually quite nice. They have this nice new, this thing called, um, ADV [00:24:00] Advantage Audience.

Audience Advantage. Okay. So in that, right, it's like their algorithm has already kind of like mapped out who is likely to see it. Oh, so if you leave that on, you can give it guardrails, right. Okay. To say like, Hey, I am looking for entrepreneurs, or Hey, I'm looking for moms, or Hey, I'm looking for people within, sorry, the United, sorry.

Within the United States. I need them to be female. I need them to drive this car. Another fun way to look at it is don't buckle down. Don't think like you have to niche down. I often find that people want a niche down in ads. Ads is a fun place where you can just test. Yeah. So everything is a version, right?

So you have version one. We're gonna test entrepreneurs version two, we're gonna test, uh, people who follow a certain influencer or industry guru per se, or something like that. Or they read certain books so they shop at certain stores. A good way, and this is what I tell all my clients, a good way to figure out where to start.

'cause you're like, oh, Carol, but I don't [00:25:00] know. I wanna sell to everyone and No, no, I got you. Right. All you're gonna do is you're gonna close your eyes for me, and you're gonna pretend that you're looking for this person in a shopping center, right? Mm. Okay. Where are they? Yeah. And even before, where are they?

What did they drive to get there? Mm-hmm. Were they driving a Tesla? Were they driving a Mercedes? Where did they walk? Did they cycle? How did they get there? Interesting. Okay. Now they're there. Are they shopping at Whole Foods? Are they shopping at TJ Maxx? Do we find them at Gucci? At Dior? Are they at Lululemon?

Uhhuh? Are they at a bookstore? If they're at a bookstore, what are they picking up? Are they picking up, you know, some doc romance, fantasy? You know, I'm just saying, or are they watching a self-help book? If so, what kind of titles? All these things make great audiences that you can test and you can either test a combination of them to create, like someone with a personality who has those things, or you can narrow down in one particular field.

[00:26:00] Now, even though like you said, the audience will be really big, that's okay because your budget is really small, so you can only show so much of your ad to that 1 million, 2 million, 13 million people at a time. You're not gonna go through that audience every day, right? So it's fine. Don't forget about, forget about that.

If your audience gets, if your audience gets too small or too specific, that's when you should worry. Because if there's only a thousand people and you keep showing the same ad to the same thousand people, they're gonna be like, please stop. Yeah. Like why? Why can't I get rid of you? And that's actually bad.

And it hurts your ad because the algorithm sees that as like no one is clicking on this. This is a bad offer. So your cost per result will rise. You'll actually, it'll actually kind of like stop it from showing it to people. 'cause it's a bad experience and Facebook wants, meta wants people to have a good experience with the ads.

They want them to be like, oh yeah, this is cool. I saw it and I clicked on it and I bought, that's the experience they want.

Angela Gennari: Oh wow. That's great advice. Really, really good advice. Thank you for that. Um, [00:27:00] yeah, so that, that's not at all how I've been doing it, so that helps me tremendously. Oh, I that 'cause you know, I'm like me.

Maybe just everybody. Maybe everybody is my audience and it's not my audience, I can tell you that. Um, so it's really cool. So tell me a little bit more. When you started your business, what obstacles and challenges did you have to overcome?

Carol Kabaale: So I think the biggest one for me is that like no one in my family has ever been in entrepreneurship.

Intro: Oh.

Carol Kabaale: So my parents are actually, uh, both doctors. Okay. And, um, they really wanted me to have like a very secure kind of job. Like, so when I chose business, they thought I would like just work for this lovely corporation for the rest of my life until I died, right? I remember even telling them like, Hey, I am thinking of changing jobs like companies.

And they're like, why? Why would you do that? No, no, no, no, no. Stay there. Like this is crazy. Stay there until they fire you. Like, don't move. And it was really like a lot when I made this decision because I had no one to really role [00:28:00] model. Um-huh. And see what this was like to me. I saw people, you know, I knew what role models were, if that makes sense.

Like I knew people like Oprah Winfrey, ex like existed and I knew like famous people who were role models, but I was like, yeah, that's them. That's not me. Like I didn't know anybody in my like vicinity to be like, oh yeah, no, Angela, she's an entrepreneur. No, I didn't have that. Yeah. So that scared me the most because you don't know what you don't know.

Um, and I also was very much scared of what people were gonna think. I

Angela Gennari: had a very

Carol Kabaale: cushy, uh, corporate job. Um, because I worked in hospitality, they would often send me on work trips to like Dubai, to go to London, to go to like different places. I was often traveling and it was like very cool. I was this corporate girly, like in her young twenties, like just doing all this fun stuff and now I was gonna become this business person and I had no idea what they'd looked like.

So that was very scary. Um, I made the choice. I think for my own benefits, um, I didn't tell [00:29:00] anybody I was really gonna do it. I just kept quiet. Wow. I didn't even tell my fiance. Wow. I don't, I don't suggest this, by the way. Don't suggest. Right. Looking back on it, um, I would've told my fiance, but, um, for a long time I just sort of quit one day.

Angela Gennari: Mm. And

Carol Kabaale: I came home and I started to put into action what I thought I wanted, which was. A business of some kind.

Angela Gennari: Wow. And

Carol Kabaale: um, that was really hard because I had a lot of guilt and I had a lot of debts in the beginning because I was paying for all of this in like with my savings and my credit cards and, you know, it was a lot.

Um, it was very stressful. Um, but I think that when I finally opened up to like my husband and told him, Hey, this is where I'm at, he was like, whoa. Interesting. Um. He was really smart. He put it together very quickly. He was like, why are you always at home? Like, why don't you ever go to the office? And I'm like, yeah, I'm just working from home.

This was pre Covid, so that was a very bad lie, like right. He was working from home [00:30:00] like, okay. But that's what I said. Um, and eventually he sat me down. He's very analytical and he was like, okay. We've gotta give things, timelines. How long are you going to try at this? Like, are you gonna try at this for a year?

Are you gonna try this for six months? What are you gonna determine as milestones that you're moving in the right direction? And that really helped me to get like super clear on like how I would do this. I didn't have the tiny steps, but I had the big mountains, the big anchors, and I was like, if I can just make it there.

I'm gonna be fine. Like I don't know how, but if I can just make it to that spot, I'll be okay. And that's sort of how I did like the first like two years where I was just sort of like, if I can just make it to having three clients, I'll be fine. If I can make it to four clients, if I can make it to this amount of revenue, I'll be okay.

Um, yeah, but it was scary because I really felt like I had no one and, um. I wanted to learn everything. So I also downloaded and took every course, every masterclass, every, and it was [00:31:00] never enough. I just felt like the more I learned, the more I didn't know. Have you ever felt that way? Oh, absolutely. Like right, absolutely.

And I was like, oh, no. Like now I don't know what a landing page is. Oh, no. Now I don't know what an email secret. Oh no. I was like, oh girl. What am I or you,

Angela Gennari: you know, just enough to get yourself into a conversation. Then somebody asks you a question, you're like, oh, I, I didn't look at that. It's like, yeah, yeah.

You're like,

Carol Kabaale: yeah, I know that. And you're like, busy Googling on the side, like, how do I, yeah,

Angela Gennari: exactly. Mm-hmm.

Carol Kabaale: Yeah. So that was very interesting and very challenging. Um, but again, I felt like there were so many lessons to learn there, like, don't give up. Mm-hmm. I know it sounds like such a cliche, but it really was that for me, it was like.

You don't have to tell everyone your business. That was another one that I really learned. 'cause when I started telling people, and by this point my business was like, okay, it was stable. They still judged it. Oh yeah. It was still like, oh, oh, this is what you're doing. And I was like, could you imagine when I started, if I had that too?

Had, if [00:32:00] I had that other pressure of like, how could you do this? I just, I just, I'm so thankful I didn't tell people, but I don't advise it because the guilt is not for the weak.

Angela Gennari: Well, and it's harder to find your tribe, you know, like when you, you would need that, that sounding board of people who are also doing something like that because not having anyone to talk to you can get in your head.

So much that it is crushing sometimes because that inner voice is, is one where, you know, am I, are you crazy? What are you doing? Why are we doing this? And is this worth it? And all of that goes running in your head over and over and over again. Um, so have you been able to find that tribe of people that you really are like, these are my people.

Like they get it, they understand why I'm doing this.

Carol Kabaale: I really have. Um, and funny enough, I would say like, I always thought it would come from my immediate community. I was like, oh, really? This person? Or Oh, this friend, or, oh, whatever. And it didn't, huh? [00:33:00] Strangers have been. The most supportive people, the most kind people.

One thing I've said, and I've, I've really learned about this entrepreneurship is like you'll meet someone on the internet and they will be your biggest supporter. Yeah. They'll like all your photos, they will share your stuff. They will advocate for you in a Facebook group. They will like, promote you and be like, Carol's so amazing.

And I'm like, this person doesn't know you. Right. Like your own circle. And I mean, I, I'm not speaking for everyone, but this was my experience like. They were like always questioning it, so I'm so thankful to have made like. A chosen business family, if you can call it that. Like I have this group of people, like my one friend Anya, like I just love her so much.

We literally voice note every day. We send each other videos. We're like, we're talking about like books and fairies and we're also talking about, girl, this is how I'm doing my branding this year. Yeah. Like let's go what we are doing. Yeah. So it's so nice to find your community, but like you said, until you get to that point, it can feel very isolating and mm-hmm.

Yeah. If [00:34:00] you need people, I'm sure Angela can be your goal. I could be your goal. Like don't be, don't be sad by yourself. We got you. Yeah,

Angela Gennari: it's true. And, and that's one of the hardest things, like, I, I'm like you, like I didn't come from a family of entrepreneurs. Like I didn't know. People who had businesses.

And so I'm out there and I'm like, I hope I'm not screwing this up too badly and like getting myself into big trouble. I'm just kind of trying to figure it out and then, and then you make the mistake of going to somebody who is a close friend, family member, whatever, and they don't get it. And so all they do is they try to give you advice on what they know.

And that can be detrimental also because. The best advice is, look, I know who you are and I'm gonna speak to your character. But the worst advice is them trying to give you advice on something they don't know anything about. And, and they're really trying to like, steer you and, and, and they have good intentions behind it, but it's not what you need to hear.

And you gotta be really careful about who you listen to in those moments because. I've [00:35:00] gotten some really bad advice from people who had good intentions, but just didn't know, and I just trusted them as an inner circle person instead of really trusting of where that, where that expertise is coming from.

Like,

Carol Kabaale: yeah. Yeah. And I, and I know that feeling you, there's so comforting and they're like so familiar. So it's like, okay, yes, they, how could this person want something wrong for me? But like you said, because they don't know what they don't know. It's very difficult to make a good decision.

Angela Gennari: Absolutely. So, um, so what advice would you give to your 18-year-old self?

Carol Kabaale: Oh. Gosh, what a wild child that was. We had fun. We had fun. We had fun. I'm so glad I was part of that digital camera generation 'cause Hmm mm-hmm It was an interesting time. Right. Uh, as my husband and I say, if you remember the year, it was a good time. That's right. So I would say to her that look. Life is, I [00:36:00] think that 18-year-old Carol was very much a people pleaser.

Ah, she was a person who needed a lot of validation and she needed to fit in. But what is interesting is that everything that I always wanted to hide about myself, so the pa, the fact that I'm very charismatic, the fact that I am like loud and I get along with people and do you know the fact that I'm bubbly and like I'm just like, yo, let's try this.

Let's do this. The fact that I can just. Bring a group of strangers together and we can just do stuff. These were things which were like, why are you always trying to get in everything? Why are you always trying to do this? Like, mm-hmm. Those were qualities that were made to feel like they were negative.

Why are you so loud? Why do you always need attention? Looking back on it now. In like my 32 years of life. Oh my gosh. I'm like getting so old. Um, I can tell you that those are the things that have made me the best kind of leader or the best kind of like founder in my company. The best kind of friend and the best kind of wife.

1. '

Angela Gennari: cause

Carol Kabaale: I truly know what I [00:37:00] value and I don't like to deviate from it anymore. Um, and I would tell that, that Carol, Hey, you are okay. You are doing okay. You're doing enough. And to be honest, I wouldn't give her much more advice than that. Because I'm a strong believer that everything that has happened in my life for the good or bad of it, has led me to this moment, and I am so thankful for the version of Carol that I am right now.

Honestly, I wouldn't change much.

Angela Gennari: That's amazing. Yeah, and I agree. It's those, it's those crazy experiences that you go through that, that are character building. You know, like I, I think that's why I'm a such a big advocate of people not overprotecting their children. Because when you overprotect your children, you shelter them from those things that are so character building.

And yes, it might. As a parent, you wanna shield them and protect them from every little thing, but those are character building moments that give you the resiliency, the strength, that there's [00:38:00] so much that comes out of that. You want, you want an adult who is capable and competent and you know, those, those times that I've messed up when I was 18, 19, 20, like those really bad decisions that I made back then.

They, they helped to create a foundation of making good choices later on. Because choices become exponentially more expensive the older you get. So

Carol Kabaale: ain't

Angela Gennari: that the truth?

Carol Kabaale: Ain't that the truth? I'm like so much

Angela Gennari: girl.

Carol Kabaale: If we only

Angela Gennari: knew back then, I know. I know. But yeah, so I'm a big, I'm a big proponent of failing, failing, failing hard, um, when you're young because, uh, you don't wanna lose all your money at 60.

If you lose all your money at 20, you lose all your money at 20, you'll gain it back by the time you're 20 and a half. You know, it's like you probably

Carol Kabaale: don't have that much money to lose. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. You'll have it at 20 and a half, you'll,

Angela Gennari: you'll gain that $500 that you lost back in no time, but you lose all your money at 60, you've got a problem.

And so, [00:39:00] yeah. So lessons become more expensive the older you get. So I'm a big Oh, I like

Carol Kabaale: that. I think I'm gonna add that to my board.

Angela Gennari: Yeah.

Carol Kabaale: Whole. I'm gonna add that one to my board.

Angela Gennari: Good. So, um, so as, as women, we give away our power all the time, you know, in different ways, you know, whether that's giving somebody else credit or, or not stepping into our power in a moment where we could have, you know, shine or do something like that.

So, can you tell me about a time that you gave away your power and another time that you stepped into your power?

Carol Kabaale: Yeah, I can definitely do that. So I was raised by a very narcissistic mother. Mm-hmm.

Angela Gennari: Um,

Carol Kabaale: I recently learned that word uhhuh to me. She was just mom, but now I can put a title yes in front of that.

I actually learned, I actually thought everybody's parents were like that. I didn't see anything wrong with that. I just thought everybody went through that uhhuh. For those of you who don't know what a narcissistic person is like, they're just very controlling. Everything is about them. You can never do anything.

Right. [00:40:00] Um, they suck the energy out of everything. Yes. And they're just the center of the universe. They're just like a, it's my way or the highway. Like, and if you know someone like that girl. Yeah. If you can run. Mm-hmm. But if they're your family, I get it. Yeah. So that being said, um, because I was raised by someone like that, I often gave my mom a lot of my power, um, in the terms of whatever my mom needs.

Um, she can phone me right now and I often would just be like, okay, Angela, I'm so sorry. I gotta go because I gotta pick up this phone call. Uhhuh.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. And I would

Carol Kabaale: put everything else on hold for her. Um, and not think about myself. You know, you know that saying, put on your own oxygen mask before assisting others.

Oh, I was assisting others. Mm-hmm. I was, right. Mm-hmm. And I had to learn very quickly that that's not a way to live. Um, only because I just felt like I still love my mom. I respect my mom. I don't like have anything against her. We have a. Okay. [00:41:00] Relationship, but I don't say okay. Right. We have an okay relationship.

Um, but I needed to understand that like, you know, me giving all of this and having nothing in return from it is actually very draining in itself. Now, I am not. Of the belief you have to give to receive. But if you are giving and giving and giving and someone is just sucking and sucking and sucking at some point you can't give.

Yeah. There is nothing more to give. So I had to stop that. And I mean, one of the many instances that I have come out of it, and not only with my mom, she was the biggest one that I identified just in life. I had to put up those boundaries. Mm-hmm. And I learned that setting boundaries is not really. A bad thing.

I always thought it was so terrible, like, oh my gosh, I'm pushing this person away. What will they think? It's actually an act of service, and that's how I like to look at it, because I am saying to myself, Hey, this is what I will stand for and this is what I won't, but I'm also allowing you to understand, hey, this is what I can do for you.

Up to this point, and [00:42:00] over and above that I'm not the person who can help and assist you with that. That also works in business. Sometimes as business people, we like to be like, Hey, I can do everything. I can help you with everything. I, I can do everything. It's also takes a certain kind of person to understand like, Hey, I'm actually not the right person for that project.

I know someone or I can try and help you find somebody else. And letting a client go, letting an opportunity go, that doesn't serve you. So for me, learning that was really, really powerful. And I think it came from being raised by someone who constantly took from me and never gave back.

Angela Gennari: I love that so much.

And you're exactly right. I mean, setting boundaries is good for you and for the other person. Mm-hmm. Because it just tells people, these are my guard guardrails. And it's okay if you can't be within those guardrails, but it, by being honest about that, you give that person the opportunity to either stay within those guardrails or go on and that's okay.

It's, it's, it's freeing to say, you know what? We don't see [00:43:00] things the same way, and it's a better opportunity for us to just move on and that's okay. But like to me, the it gives, it's it's grace. It is grace to be able to offer that to someone and say, I'm gonna give you the gift of a boundary because that way you can then choose.

And I say the same thing with honesty. You know when people are not honest with you, then the problem is, is it robs you of the ability to make a decision. Based on real information and you know, again, you know, you're, you're, if somebody is lying to you about something, then it forces you to make a decision on false information and you cannot make good decisions on bad information.

And so by being honest, even if it's not something you wanna hear. Just like with boundaries, it gives me the opportunity to react and say, does this fit or does this not fit? I need to be able to react based on real information, real boundaries, real guardrails, and then you can make a decision for yourself about what to do next.

Carol Kabaale: Yeah, a hundred percent couldn't have said better. [00:44:00]

Angela Gennari: Yeah. Well, I love that, that you, you figured this out and then you stepped into your power by setting those boundaries. I think that's really powerful. Very cool. So one last question 'cause I really enjoyed talking to you, Carol. You're brilliant, and I just think you just have such an amazing personality and I can't wait to see what all you do next.

Thank you. Um, so one last question is, what do you wish more people knew?

Carol Kabaale: Oh. Okay.

Angela Gennari: Okay. Hold onto

Carol Kabaale: your hats. Because I learned this last year and it's been my mantra and it's been like my guiding stone. It's actually every year I pick an affirmation or I pick a word and I pick a direction. My last year, funny enough, let me just go sidetrack before I answer your question, Uhhuh, but yeah, I, my business partner and I.

Part ways. I said I want completion. Mm. I want things to be completed. Because in my mind, what I thought I wanted was like, I want like projects to be finished so we can build up and up and up. But what it actually turned out to be like things that no longer served me were [00:45:00] completed. They ended, they left my life.

So this is very powerful to me. I stand by this like pick something and like let it guide you. Yeah. Oh, love it. So this year for me. What I, what I picked was what? You don't change, you choose.

Angela Gennari: Ooh, yes.

Carol Kabaale: Right. What you don't change, you choose. Yes. And that for me, falls into so many categories. Like I have always been that girl, I wanna be healthier, I wanna do things.

And because I was so blessed with like a high metabolism, I was never hitting the gym uhhuh. But you know what? I was choosing that because I was like, oh, my pants are too tight. Well. Girl, get on the treadmill. Go for a run, eat a salad. Okay? Uhhuh in business. Oh, my clients suck. They never pay on time. Well, what are you doing to fix that, right?

Do you have an automated system? Are you sending out invoices at the right, right time? Are you following up on them? Pay this thing, Hey, I'm gonna give you a 10%. Like fine if you don't pay on time, you are choosing that situation. By not [00:46:00] changing it. And once you understand that, it becomes so powerful that it's like I have choice.

And that's something I love. I've always wanted to create a business of choice. So what you don't change, you choose. So what are you choosing today?

Angela Gennari: Oh, that's beautiful. So beautiful. I love it. I love it. I love it. What a great way to end. So where can people find you?

Carol Kabaale: So I'm sure it'll be up or down or in the show notes, Uhhuh.

Um, but you'll have all my details all over the internet. My name is just Carol Kabale and if you want to have some fun, if you were like, oh, Carol seems like a cool ads person, I wanna connect with her. Uh, before you jump in, I do have this really cool quiz. It's about two minutes long and after you take it, it will let you know if you are ready to run Facebook ads.

It's really fun. So take the quiz, find out if you're ready to run Facebook ads, and yeah, that's what I could say. Probably gonna be in the note.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We'll make sure that we have all the links, um, for all of your socials and everywhere that they can find you on pretty powerful podcast.com.

So thank you so much, Carol. This has [00:47:00] been such a pleasure.

Carol Kabaale: Thank you. I'm so excited and I hope I come back. 'cause I like Absolutely.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, this is, this has been great energy. I appreciate it. Well, and everyone, we will see you next time on the pretty powerful podcast.com. Have a great day, everybody. Bye-bye.

Intro: Thank you for joining our guests on the pretty powerful podcast. And we hope you've gained new insight and learn from exceptional women. Remember to subscribe or check out this and all episodes on pretty powerful podcast.com. Visit us next time and until then, step into your own power.